Saturday, June 10, 2006

1 corinthians chapter seven


jON said...

have at it, kids. i'll be back tonight after work.

Dee said...

I was thinking of the seventh verse here where Paul seems to want other men to be like him. Is it possible he might have been a widower? I don't know why I ask that but I do think it is curious he thinks they should be like him.

The idea that the wife has power over her own body should squelch the idea that those who think a woman has power over her body when it comes to abortion. Once you are married you and your husband become one. So the idea of shoving the husband out of the equasion in such matters is totally wrong.

As leaving a spouse that is a non believer, I have known people who have been married to non believers for many years and it was thru their prayers and patience that the non believers went to christ and it is our duty to help those who do not believe find the way to God. We are not to abandon them.

I do not believe that Paul is going against what God says in Matthew 5:32. If the non believer is the one who decides to depart, you cannot really stop him. All he is saying is to let him go and you go on living a christian life.

I am a little tired tonight so will stop for now. I hope to get back in here a little more often.

Susan said...

The chapter seems to be split into three sections:
v.8-9 for the unmarried and widows;
v.10-24 for the married;
v.25-38 for virgins

which raises the interesting question - who are the "unmarrieds" in v.8-9 since virgins are address later? Widows are already mentioned so are they divorced/separated people?

What's also interesting is that Paul aligns himself with the "unmarrieds" (v.8) and not with the virgins. Suggesting that Paul was married at some point; but obviously wasn't at the time of writing. So I think it highly possible that Paul was a widower or perhaps his wife left him when he became a Christian.

Trent said...

I'd agree with Susan in the opinion that Paul was very likely a widower, or his wife had left him. His position as a Pharisee prior to conversion also suggests this. There is record of unmarried Jewish religious leaders around the time of Christ, but they appear to have been a small minority. Yes and amen to Dee's comments regarding believing spouses sticking it out with non-believers for redemptive purposes. I've seen it, too, and when that non-believer comes to Jesus, it's a glorious thing.

Wendy ftfs said...

10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

This is one of those things in scripture that are hard to deal with ... it certainly doesn't feel up to date ... but I know all scripture is. I'm sure that women have been abused by their husbands for all time. There is no provision for remarriage here as far as Paul is concerned re: a woman who has left her husband.... and that just seems unfair in a way to a woman with small children who has had to flee her marriage... not because she wanted to, but because she just wasn't safe. And more importantly to these women, often their children aren't safe. Our society condemns these women for staying in these kinds of situations and here Paul sentences them to a lonely life of struggle or insists that they go back to their husbands... It's weird... I love the Word of teaches mercy and justice.
Is she supposed to wait for him to kill her or just keep praying that he changes?

What's the scoop in your minds?

Thanks :-)

jON said...

wow. really. there was so much in this chapter, i'm not sure what to say. or where to start. and i'm impressed with your powers of perception, people. never thought about paul and his former married life before.

1CO 7:1 "Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman."

what i found interesting was the word "touch" in this verse. according to my horribly limited resources, in the greek this word apparently means: "to touch for the purpose of manipulating." which adds a whole new dimention to this statement. i guess i have always been so afraid of women thinking that i was trying to manipulate them that i have just steered clear of touching women altogether. and now i'm beginning to feel different. i guess i have left too many of my dear sisters hanging who really, genuinely needed a show of affection like a hug and simply didn't because of fear. this verse helps to inspire me to tear down that wall of seperation and embrace with love those who need it. male or female.

and i also found it laugh out loud funny that paul tells people to get married and then once married to fuck all the time except for seasons of prayer. then of course he says that it's not a command, just a good idea. even funnier.

the part that really stuck out for me in this chapter however were v. 17-24. i have heard so little spoken about this before, but given what i have gone through and am currently going through, it makes perfect sense. it has taken me 7 years, but i have finally come back the place i was in when i was first called. and it feels like home. like where i have belonged all along. i just didn't have confidence. i didn't believe. because of fear. and now that i am here, it's hard to believe that god is so good. that his yoke is really so easy. and his burden so light.

for some reason, it can be so easy to think that since "now i know god" that i need to seperate myself from the world i was in. and this just isn't so. according to paul (and my own experience) we were just where the lord wanted us to be when we were called. and we should stay and continue to live out the difference. drawing near without fear because the price has already been paid. knowing nothing and having no hope but christ and him crucified.

Susan said...

Wendy, I think in this particular passage Paul is simply answering a question (v.1 Now for the matters you wrote about...)and they weren't asking about abusive husbands. I feel that Paul's answer would have been very different if that had been the case.

Wendy ftfs said...

Thanks Susan ...
I had not thought about that ...
cool ... so that would be one of the areas that the Holy Spirit would have to give us direction, present tense.

jON said...

much love to all of you. i brought some more of my famous cheese dip if anyone wants some.

could use something to drink, though. anybody have anything?

Wendy ftfs said...

Cranberry juice and gingerale ...
in the fridge ... :-)

jON said...

much thanks. perfect.