Sunday, May 14, 2006

an interlude. vol.1

i have been digesting this record for almost two weeks now. and i need your help with something. if you would be so kind...

i'm going to post a couple of sets of lyrics and i would like for you to read them and give me your thoughts on them. because when i listen to him, the spirit that i get is the same as what is in myself. i get the impression that he actually knows the holy spirit but does not use any church language or images to express it.

give me your honest opinion no matter what it is. i'm not looking for agreement. i looking for your honest thoughts. i respect them all. thanks.

"Life Wasted"

You're always saying that there's something wrong...
I'm starting to believe it's your plan all along...

Death came around, forced to hear its song...
And know tomorrow can't be depended on.

I seen the home inside your head,...
All locked doors and unmade beds.
Open sores unattended
Let me say just once that

I have faced it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

I escaped it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

Having tasted,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

The world awaits just up the stairs
Leave the pain for someone else.

Nothing back there for you to find,...
Or was it you, you left behind?

You're always saying you're too weak to be strong...
You're harder on yourself than just about anyone.

Why swim the channel just to get this far?
Halfway there, why would you turn around?

Darkness comes in waves,... tell me,why invite it to stay?

You're warm with negativity,
Yes, comfort is an energy,...
But why let the sad song play?

I have faced it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

I escaped it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

Having tasted,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.

Oh I erased it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.


No more upset mornings
No more trying evenings
This American dream
I am disbelieving

When the gas in my tank
Feels like money in the bank
Gonna blow it all this time
Take me one last ride

For the lights of this city
They only look good when I'm speeding
Gonna leave 'em all behind me
Cause this time

I'm gone

Long gone
This time I'm letting go of it all
So long
Cause this time I'm gone

In the far off distance
As my tail-lights fade
No one thinks to witness
But they will someday

Feel like a question is forming
And the answer is far
I'll be what I could be
Once I get of of this town

For the lights of this city
They have lost all feeling
Gonna leave 'em all behind me
Cause this time

I'm gone

Long gone
This time I'm letting go of it all
So long
Long gone, I'm letting go of it all
Cause this time I'm gone

If nothing is everything
If nothing is everything, I'll have it all

If nothing is everything
If nothing is everything, I'll have it all

I am gone


Herschel said...

i see those sentiments in alot of people, believers and non-believers lately...

i think they are definitly the sentiments of the Holy Spirit wanting more than our current lives are offering in our american lifestyles...

I think those were my sentiments when i really began to take my faith seriously...

i dont know the status of pearl jam's beliefs, but at the very least, i think God is beginning to call them to Himself...

and at most, they are already with Him and maybe we need ot hear those words

Wendy ftfs said...

I think the song "A Life Wasted" is about a husband speaking to his wife who is depressed or a wife to her husband.
:-) Melancholy Baby ...

It seems a life is wasted when it is spent in locked rooms with unmade beds and open sores unattended.

This song is about human frailties..
and the love of a friend to lift them out.... That's what I think


Wendy ftfs said...

Had to go out for a few and while I was driving home ... thought of this... could just be two good friends as well ... but 1 John 4 came to mind ... because we see God everywhere and in every good thing, I do agree.
This chapter speaks of testing the spirit of another. And I am going to dwell on love yet again ... at verse 15 it says:

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

So, Jon, why don't you call them up and ask them if they confess Christ... LOL

jON said...

yes, but those are the deeper questions for me. what does it mean to "confess christ?" if we here in this place have come here because we believe several things about the public face of the church and its policies and doctrines to be in error at most and misguided at least, is it possible that our definition of what it means to "believe on jesus" is misguided or erroneous?

what i mean is this: jesus said we would recognize people who "know him" by their fruit. so, not saying that what John said is in error (far from it!), but rather that it may not be the whole picture. because, once again, jesus didn't say we would know each other by the language we used, but rather by the way we lived our lives. (fruit)

and, though it can be hard to get in lyric only, the spirit i get out of this music and the consciencious lives that the members lead in spreading love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, goodness, gentleness, and self control... it becomes hard to believe that they don't, somewhere inside, whether they have full understanding of it or not, "know him." they sure exhibit the characteristics of those who "know" christ.

i am aware that "The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure." yet, wasn't this stated before the new covenant? before the sacrifice was made? after the sacrifice, didn't god say he would pour out his spirit on all flesh? didn't he say he would write his law on the hearts of everyone? didn't paul tell us in romans that god is evident to everyone? is it possible that people could be able to tap into this new covenant, based on what christ has done, whether they are truly aware of it or believe it or not, without doing it through evangelical formulas?

wouldn't that produce a person who could go places and do things for the kingdom that a traditional evagelical simply WON'T or CAN'T go?

questions... questions...

one more bit of lyrics from this record...

High above,I'll break the law, if it's illegal to be in love,
leave the hatred, on the cross.

Paul said...

Problem: Traditional evangelicals haven't DONE or GONE anywhere, really.

So, in order to see this "Kingdom" that is at hand, we have to stop looking at them for inspiration and motivation.

And I sense that you [ Jon ] are looking for permission to GO and DO. The traditional evangelicals won't give you THAT either. They would rather cast you aside or put you out with the trash - quietly, of course.

God has placed his Holy Spirit in you - as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Solution: Keep asking God to give you ears to hear and eyes to see what the Spirit is saying to you.

jON said...

thank you for your piercing insight, paul. it is welcomed and appreciated. i guess, yes, i am seeking a permission of sorts. a mental permission. no, a heart permission. and coroboration. i do not wish to be mislead, but i tend to find inspiration not in scripture ONLY, but also in the words and lives of men such as these.

and then comes the accuser, telling me i "shouldn't", that i am being lead astray. the reason i am taking the accuser less seriously, is because he is using fear and intimidation. and i don't "feel" any of that when i listen to these things. i feel warmth and love and growth and a widening understanding of who god is and how he is currently, even at this moment, actively at work in our world through lives.

i just ask others whom i respect, like y'all, to gain a greater clarity and seek for wisdom from those who are not necessarily lead by the "moral code" or traditions. i'm trying to recognize that i don't have all of the answers contained in myself and when i don't bounce my ideas off of others (who can handle such ideas) it becomes too easy for me to convince myself that my ideas are right.

and i don't really want to do THAT. but i do want to DO. i long to GO. and that's just it. i'm gone. that's why the song hit me as hard as it did. i'm already gone this time. i know i have heard the voice and have begun following and i find myself in a somewhat "lonely" place.

lonely in the sense that it does not contain so many of those who i have built relationship with "in christ" over the past several years. in fact it has divided many of us. which, i'm not saying is good or bad, right or wrong. it is simply the fact of the matter. and my first reaction is one of shock and surprise and to be startled and a little unsure of this division.

and i know that examples can be given on both sides of the equation for times when people had to walk out in faith in a somewhat "isolated" experience relying solely on god and amazing things have happened. other times, men hardened in their rebellion and ideas have walked away from truth to do what they wish.

as i seek to understand more of who i truly am at heart, the part of me god has created; and as i try to be honest about it, and try to learn exactly how to use that for the purposes of building the kingdom, i am seeking desperately to NOT be one of the latter cases.

which makes responses like these so incredibly helpful. to help me renew my mind yet again, one more day, to see through the imaginary veil of the concrete and physical into the world of grace and freedom and love. the world of the spirit. the world where god has called and IS calling us all. the world where HE IS. and learning from this other world and trying to learn how to bring this truth back into the physical world and communicate this turth to those who need the rest and peace of that truth. those like me.

much love. thanks for the input as always.

Susan said...

I read these lyrics a couple of times but being unfamiliar with the songs and the band, I could not "hear their heart". So I'm not sure what they are getting at exactly.

Nevertheless I know God moves in mysterious ways and "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord." Christians, it seems, (me included!) are very inclined to put God in a box and say He can't/won't do anything outside of the box, which is of course, ridiculous.

I think it is good advice of Paul's: Keep asking God to give you ears to hear and eyes to see what the Spirit is saying to you.

Wendy ftfs said...

Yes!! Go and Do Jon ....
And here's a song for you ...
Chuck Berry, dude LOL

GO GO !!
GO GO !!

LOLOLOOLOOL (giggling)

Heather said...

all I can say is that pearl jam has hit the nail on the head. i think they are aware of the pervasive nothingness of life, the depression that runs rampant in our society, the lack of love of God and what happens to us in those times.
to be honest, those lyrics (from a life wasted) could have been written for me, or by me. it's the story of my life, as well. it's the spirit of fear and the fear of failure. more and more i wonder if depression isn't more spiritual than it is chemical...
i definitely get a sense of what you're referring to when i read the lyrics. i'm tempted to go buy the cd now, because i don't think i've heard these songs.
i have to leave. i'm going to think on this. there may be more later.

jON said...

sit tight, gang. we'll be back with corinthians in a couple of days.

Herschel said...

um, i have a prayer request...

a dear friend of mine, named heather was in an accident tongiht. she was driving on the interstate and hit a parked car on the shoulder with a guy in it...

they are checking her out and she seems "ok"-whatever that means, and all they know about the guy was that he was airlifted soemwhere--

that is really all the info i have coming from second hand info from family--

um, i just askthat you pray that the guy is able to come through and that heather is ok as well(i think it would be her prayer that he is ok more than her)

thanks yall

jON said...

of course.

Herschel said...

heather is going to be ok. she is really shaken up. she just has soem deep bruises which is good considering she was going over 65 when she hit the parked car.

the man is goign to be live as fas as we know. he was hurt more substantially but from what we know, he should be ok in the long run.

continue to pray for both of them though. as it turned out, the man was drunk and his car was sticking out into the interstate while parked and so he may be facing alot of trouble on top of being injured.

just that God would be glorified even more in all this. He already has been in that both of them are alive.

thanks everyone

Trent said...

Sorry I come to this particular thread late in the game, but am intrigued by some of Jon's speculations in the 9:22am post regarding God having poured out his Spirit on all flesh, and the possiblity that believing upon and confessing Jesus have been misconstrued and mean something altogether different than is commonly assumed. Rather than speculate, why not consider what the Word actually says?

Do the events of ACTS 2:1-4ff. indicate that God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh in the sense that all now have the Spirit upon or in their lives? To be clear, I'm not talking about the general revelation described in Ps. 19:1-6 or Rom. 1:19-20, etc. Nor am I talking about the convicting work of the Holy Spirit described by Jesus in Jn. 16:7-11, which in my opinion is a universal human experience. I'm talking about the Holy Spirit taking up residence upon, over, in a life in such a way that person becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit as described by Paul in 1 Cor. 6:19-20. This is certainly what happened to those gathered in the upper room in Acts 2. If God pouring his Spirit out on all flesh means that all now have the Spirit in this fashion, isn't it curious that in response to the crowd's question, "What shall we do?", Peter, having just quoted from Joel 2 regarding the Spirit's outpouring on ALL FLESH, nevertheless encourages repentence and baptism, saying that it is THEN they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? If the Spirit's already been poured out on the crowd, they are, after all, part of the all flesh, right (?), why the clear indication there remains the need to receive him?

Why, as well, the need for the Samaritans in Acts 8:14-17 to receive the Holy Spirit? These people had actually believed upon Jesus and been baptized in his name, and yet had, according to scripture, not yet received the Spirit.

And what about post-Pentecost Cornelius in Acts 10? If anybody exemplified a man who to all appearances had the Holy Spirit working in and over and upon his life, it was this righteous Gentile. And yet he and his household did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until hearing and responding to Peter's message.

And what about the Ephesian disciples described in Acts 19. They're obviously doing the best they can with what they've got, but by their own testimony they haven't even heard of the Holy Spirit. Still, you'd think they'd qualify under Jon's suggested parameters as those upon whom the Holy Spirit had already been poured out. And yet, not so. The Holy Spirit doesn't come upon them until Paul lays his hands on them.

Rom. 8:9 comes to mind in this regard, as well. It appears some people don't have the Spirit, regardless of his having been poured out on all flesh. Specfically, those without the Spirit are those who do not belong to Christ. It's possible to postulate a rather convoluted, universalist interpretation that says what Paul really meant was that everyone has the Spirit because everyon belongs to Christ. However, the context, and the manner in which Paul chose to express himself, are less than supportive of this interpretation. In it's clearest reading - almost always the best way to read a text - Paul sees those outside of saving relationship with Christ as not having the Spirit. From these scriptures it appears there's good reason to believe the outpouring of God's Spirit on "all flesh" is not as universal as Jon suggests. At the very least, it certainly is not an outpouring that carries with it an inherent salvation or spiritual birth into the Kingdom.

I really appreciated Wendy's comments on confessing Christ. Perhaps I assume to much, but it appears she's suggesting words have meaning and implications, which is an important consideration any time we attempt to interpret scripture. After all, if words are divorced from meaning, free to be invested with any meaning that fits our preconceptions, how is that any different from the sorts of things many on this blog feel the organized, traditional church is guilty of? If you're pissed the church twists the Bible around for its own purposes, don't turn around and practice the same thing for your own ends.

The word "confess" in I Jn. 4:15 has a meaning. It had a specific meaning to John when he used it. He intended it to have a specific meaning for his reader. This is the intentionality of communication, brought into even sharper focus when we consider the Holy Spirit is the ultimate author of these words. Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament speaks of the Greek root homologeo - to confess - as the "...acceptance of a specific Christological understanding." In other words, as Vine's says, "to declare openly...a confession being the deep conviction of facts." To confess Christ isn't merely a matter of being a lyricist wrestling with the human condition and the awareness that something needs to change. It is to be convinced of who Jesus said he was and of what he did, and to express that conviction openly, not only in words, or from an intellectual standpoint, as Kittel's further points out, but from taking on the life of a disciple whose determination to follow Jesus becomes the ultimate expression, and proof, of the confession's legitimacy.

It should be noted this is also the Greek word used in Rom. 10:9-10. In these two vs. another important word, with a very specific meaning, is also found. Jon expresses concern the meaning of "believing on Jesus' has been misconstrued. The word "believe" or "faith" in our various English versions of the Bible are almost invariably a translation of the Greek word pisteuo (think "piss stew" with a long "o" on the end). Pisteuo means to believe upon or trust in the sense of relying upon. It requires mental, intellectual assent to the proposition or object of faith, but, in the case of Rom. 10:9-10 where belief/faith is being placed in a person, also entails a quality of personal relationship as the context for this trust, belief, conviction, reliance, etc. In other words, Paul wasn't saying by any stretch of the imagination that salvation (being "in Christ) would come about by being merely a seeker, a deep and sober soul concerned with spiritual matters, an authentic and sincere devote' of the nobler and more weighty matters of life. He was saying that to be saved (Sorry, folks, lots of baggage with that word, but it was Paul's long before televangelists ever got hold of it.)one has to confess and believe upon Jesus. This means being deeply convinced of the specific message, and the very person and work of Christ, to the extent you're willing to declare yourself his follower, trusting and relying upon him and his work to the point of giving yourself away to him in ongoing personal relationship. Excuse the extended paraphrase, but that's what the words mean. And in their meaning, there is some clarification as to the criteria that places Mr. Vedder and friends within or without the Kingdom. In or out is not my call, at least not in the context of this post, but that there are clear scriptural definitions of what the criteria is, that's not so hard to discern.

If you've made it to this point, God bless you, you can go get that Leinie's now(or relieve yourself thereof). We've all got lots of ideas about lots of things. Strangely enough, if we'll let the Word say what it means, lots of it (tho not all of it by any means) starts to come clear. And when it does, some of it puts us at odds to one degree or another with things we hear in our churches. But some of it, a surprising amount, depending on the church you attend, ends up reaffirming things we've been taught for years (damn!), which is actually a pretty good thing when you think about it...