Monday, May 08, 2006

1 corinthians chapter four

15 comments:

jON said...

sorry, kids. i'm taking today as a day off, but please. feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

Herschel said...

i would like to take a moment and stop here to ask a question--

what Bible translation do you use and why?

not looking for arguments...just curious because i have recently been dissapointed with my NIV and upon asking some people, was told that the NIV has some issues and so I am wondering what other people whose opinions I value use?

Susan said...

I've been rather distracted the last few days and haven't yet read chapter 4. The rescue of the miners in Tasmania has been consuming, I got up this morning shortly after they were rescued and watched TV news for two hours – not my normal morning routine. But now it is time to, "Go back to your lives Citizens".

Herschel, I have been using NIV for years but perhaps mostly because it is so annoying to change translations, nothing sounds the same or is in the same place.

jON said...

i use the NASB. or, the New American Standard Bible. it is, as far as the widely available "major translations" go, the most accurate "word for word" from the greek.

at least, that was the last i checked when i worked at the bookstore. they could have come out with something new and more literal.

but i doubt it.

most translations like to do the translating for you. and that is not always a good thing if you are not aware it's being done. which is why i like to use the NASB. and besides the NASB, my mother got me a "Hebrew-Greek key study bible" which means that many of the words are underlined with a number so that you can look up the word in the original language in the back of the bible. it has been no end of fascinating.

i think it would be very eye opening if we could all learn the bible in it's original language and read it and study it that way. because most of the greek words have about a paragraph worth of nuanced meaning that is completely lost in english. and we should be getting those nuances, i think.

hugs and kisses. jON

Herschel said...

i have an english Standard version that is supposed to be as accurate as the NASB but more readable...

its new, like 2001 new...

im still trying to figure out if i like it...

one of the joys of the upcoming few years of my life in seminary is the fact that I have to learn both greek and hebrew...YES!

Susan said...

I had a friend who said reading the NT in Greek was like watching TV in colour after only having had black and white.

Herschel said...

Back to 1 Cor 4:

Well, it is always nice to be admonished for thinking we have it all together when in fact that is far from true.

" 6I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers,[a] that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another. 7For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

Paul says elsewhere in his letters that we can only boast in Christ--not what we have.

Sometimes my life will fall into being a "look-at-what-i've-done" Christian. I will find my value not in what Christ has done, but the things I have done.

"I just lead worship for 400 people. I am special. And the ladies probably dig me too."

"I just shared the gospel with a friend in my dorm. Good job Herschel!"

"I just helped organize a Bible study. The ladies probably dig me for that."

I think I am responsible for the good stuff sometimes. And all the while it is God who gave those oppurtuinities. It is He who opened the doors. I just walked through. What do I have that I have not received? And if I have recieved, why do I boast?

Wendy ftfs said...

So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. verse 1,2

Very important admonishment for those in ministry to the flock. And an important admonishment to not be following particular men who are servants of Christ... because the servants of Christ are to be revealing Christ... :-) and it is Christ we are to trust and obey. He is head ( eyes, ears, nose, mouth, tongue, teeth, appearance, expression, the gateway to every nutrient and breath. The brain which governs every function, thought, emotion, judgment and personality and balance of the body.)

I have always thought of pastors as the heart of the body.... and this is a more interesting thought to add to that... although we have certain major organs that must function well in order for the body to survive the heart is the foremost organ that the brain really depends on. Without oxygen giving blood to the brain the brain will die or suffer severe damage. I just thought it was interesting to note that relationship between the head and the heart.

What do you guys think? Do you think pastors are the heart of the body or are there other thoughts on the heart. Or are all those who LOVE Him the heart...or maybe we all meet in the heart ... LOL

love you guys...

Susan said...

I was also challenged by v.7 What do you have that you did not receive? It reminds me of one of the Narnia tales where Lewis has the character who represents Jesus say, "You would not have called to me unless I had been calling to you". The point being that it is always God who takes the initiative and we are just recipents. v.8 in the Message is quite revealing, "you already have more access to God than you can handle."

v.9 it is also interesting in the Message". The word "spectacle" contains the idea of a theater and the verse reads - "It seems to me that God has put us who bear his Message on stage in a theater in which no one wants to buy a ticket." For me it is a very poignant picture and reminds me that historically the church has always grown (both health wise and numerically wise) in a hostile environment. Conversely when the church has had the blessing of the government it has been least effective.

Herschel said...

I don't know about pastors being the hearts...

the first will eb last and the last will be first...

i think true servants are probably the heart....not that some pastors aren't true servants, but not all of them are.

when i think of the heart of the body, i think of the family where both parents are working two jobs just to feed their kids and still they give money not only to the church but support missionaires and feed people worse off them themselves...

or the nurses and doctors who give up the money of our USA medical field to go work in third world countires because they love people like Jesus does...

thats what i think of...

some songwriter guy once said:
"I believe the heart's a theatre, and the actors on it's stage, are playing dreams up as imposters, and that the devil pays there wage."

Herschel said...

or those people who get up at 330 in morning and go in to cook breakfast for the sunrise service at easter and then stay late after church to help cleanand put up chairs...they are amazing as well

jON said...

wow. it's good to sit and listen sometimes.

sorry i haven't had anything on the chapter yet. the early part of my week which is usually free was spent tying up this whole mess with my home church, and now i am in the rigorous "long hours at work" part of my week. i will be here with something probably saturday night or sunday afternoon.

please keep me and my family in prayer. i am absolutely spent over this and feel like my fruit has been smashed all over the ground.

thanks for stopping by to fill this space with your presence, warmth, and love. it is always appreciated.

much love, jON

Wendy ftfs said...

praying Jon ...

Hersch ... I was talking about real pastors, not our regular run of the mill leaders of churches that we call pastors. Real shepherds who guard and care for the sheep making sure they are not harmed and leaving the flock to find one that is lost. Nurturing shepherds. They are the ones that endeavor to keep the family in the bond of love...
I hear what you are saying.... good things.

:-)

jON said...

1CO 4:3-4 "But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord."

1CO 4:20 "For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.


whoa nelly. it's always amazing to me the timing of the lord. this could not have come at a better time for me. to reread this chapter fresh and hear it again.

those verses are the ones that stuck out overall, though. reason being that i am, as you know, in the process of deconstructing my religion and building it back up again according to and as closely as possible to the scriptures. and these are two things that i have not encountered or would say i have any real understanding of in my own life or experience.

can you imagine? really, honestly, not judging yourself? and being aware of nothing against yourself in all truth? being able to live in clear conscience...

of course he says that the feeling alone is not what acquits him, but rather that the one who examines him is the lord. and that we should leave it at that. because the lord will reveal things hidden and bring them to light in his own time.

which says to me more about the idea i have had that we should simply live and when god speaks to us, obey. and stop trying to please men and their "moral code." because in my own life and experience, the code has brought nothing but death and condemnation to my spirit and mind. but when i stop judging myself and others and simply live, and when the spirit brings something to mind, actually join with him to make the correction... i have never had more fruit.

and i think this is sound advice and a sound way to live. because we need not worry about being the holy spirit to ourselves (or others) and try to convict ourselves of sin, because we know we can change nothing under our own power. "for apart from me you can do nothing."

simply waiting on god to bring to light and move and know that he will do that because he loves us. so we can r--e--l--a--x...... "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

and v. 20. i can honestly say that while i agree wholeheartedly, i have no personal experience to give me a basis for understanding it as a regular and ongoing part of my religion. my experience has been little power and many words and been told it was the kingdom.

according to paul, this is not so. i would really like to understand this in experience as well as theory. hopefully we in the american church can experience revival and power before this "little experiment" of a country of ours implodes.

thanks for sticking around. it feels good to be back. much love, y'all.

btw, hersch, all scriptures have been quoted from the NASB. so there.

Wendy ftfs said...

1CO 4:20 "For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

Proverbs 17:27
He who restrains his words has knowledge,And he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.

Just thought I'd throw that in there...I love proverbs.

..back to words and power ...
This caught my attention too, Jon and it was what I was going after for discussion next.

Jesus healed all those who came to Him. No one went home without His healing touch...there were no half healings or "oh, I guess you must have lost your healing" or as I have witnessed just recently... a man was told by the visiting evangelist that his heart condition was healed and he had a heart attack three months later. Geesh...

I know that the Holy Spirit is here and ready and willing ... who's going give Him Freedom to move?... I like what I'm hearing in Life in General .. I have been watching this church from afar. The church work has never been traditional. Which was the whole idea of the beginnings of it ... It is called Freedom House... my objective view, as an outsider, is that the church has been built up on prayer, praise and worship. Lots of it ... sometimes whole services just praising and worshipping and praying. Not planned but allowing the Holy Spirit to walk among them... It's something I have longed to see happen for years... the putting aside of rigid organization... there is too much control on our part and then we go home wondering why the guy in the wheelchair is still going home in his wheelchair? Now I haven't heard of dramatic healings of people getting out of wheelchairs there yet... Hey, Freedom House is a start... and as long as their eyes stay on God alone we just might start hearing of these things.

So in our rigid organization are we just "playing" church? Like kids play and copy adults? Any thoughts on that?

The Lord inhabits the praises of His people....