Friday, April 21, 2006

1 corinthians chapter two

15 comments:

jON said...

alright, gang. we're coming at you from my brother's desk in statham, georgia. so here's what i'm looking at this morning in the NLT (New Living Translation), which, unfortunately, is not my favorite, but beggars can't be choosers, right? (although you wouldn't think that from many of the modern day "beggars" you run into, but that's a whole 'nother story and one susan was hinting at earlier.)

1 cor. 2:1-2 "dear brothers and sisters, when i first came to you I didn't use lofty words and brilliant ideas to tell you god's message. for i decided to concentrate only on jesus christ and his death on the cross."

what does he mean here? because through my lens, if we focus only on jesus christ and his death on the cross, and that's all we're looking at, we're free. once again, it is a settled issue. it has happened and nothing that we do or don't do can change it. the sacrifice has been made. and instead of using persuasive arguements and factoids and things of that nature trying to get "conversions", it sounds like he was just laying it out simply. "the way has been made. so not only can you know god, but you can be comfortable there and have peace always because everything you ever might do to go against him has already been taken out of the way and paid for. it's time to party, baby. celebrate in this knowledge and rest in it." given what i know of what the rest of this letter is about, it would seem that this is a fairly accurate modernization of what paul might have said to them. since this was not a jewish people, they had no problems embracing the message of freedom. we will see where it lead them and what we can learn from their usage of our god given liberty.

i would like to chat about verse 10 and verse 14, but since the NLT sucks so bad, i'm not even going to attempt it. can anyone post me something else to read? like some NASB or some Phillips or The Message or some NIV, perhaps?

love to you all, jON

Wendy ftfs said...

Lotsa love to you too, Jon and to Erin and Zaavan

9 However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Lets us in on the scoop... we are His bride and He loves us deeply and speaks to us in that way...intimately. The gifts are ALWAYS to those who love Him. OT to NT the theme does not change. Those who respond to Him, appreciate Him, are grateful to Him for His lavish love....and, yes, we are free to stumble and to mess up and get things wrong and not be afraid of losing His love. We are free to be head over heels in love with the Lord and all that He is and we share in all that belongs to Him...including His mind...we have the mind of Christ, because, like a lover, He shares what's on His mind with us. We are free to question Him... ask why? Cry over being here and not WITH Him and agonize over present day church orgs and the lack of Love which is just the same as His absence. We are free to rejoice and be exceedingly glad when it seems there is no reason to rejoice. But there always is a reason... He loves us and there is no other plan for us in His mind...but to share everything He has and is, with us...his bride.
We are the apple of His eye. I don't know about you, but that makes me all warm inside. :-)

Susan said...

Hey Jon, why not check out the Bible online: http://www.biblegateway.com/ Heaps of different translations.

Sometimes I wonder if we try to do more than God asks. He told us we are witnesses. We speak about what we have seen and heard and know to be true in our own lives. We are not the judge or jury. We don't need to press for a verdict God's Spirit will do that in His own time. I do think we need to pray for opportunities and boldness as well as that the veil will be removed from the minds of unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4) which I think is a similar thought expressed here in v.14 that unbelievers are not understanding spiritual truth.

Herschel said...

ok, so here goes the age old question, simply because i dont think i've heard yall's views on it--

does God have a specific plan for us, or do we just choose to live our lives to the best of our ability in worship of Him?

jON said...

really, hersch? i just got back into town, so i won't speak now. but you're on.

Wendy ftfs said...

Both Hersch.....specific plan: you are a child of God,live your life that has been given to you in Joy and the Peace that passes all understanding regardless of what is going on. Everything else is meaningless.
Ecclesiastes 8
12 Although a wicked man commits a hundred crimes and still lives a long time, I know that it will go better with God-fearing men, who are reverent before God. 13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow......
15 So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him "in his work" all the days of the life God has given him under the sun.

So in a nutshell... enjoy your life it is a gift...don't worry about tomorrow....YES lift your voice in praise !!!! The Lord is so worthy and it makes Him smile a big smile. As far as your purpose? HE is the potter, YOU are the clay so relax and be molded... you are in position and fulfilling His purpose even now as you ENJOY your life.
Peace out Hersch. XXOO

jON said...

i'm sure we're all anxious to move on to chapter 3, but a brother has asked a question of us and i think we out to slow down and give this serious question its due as its answer, as each one of us understands it, has a profound affect on how each one of us lives. as you will see through wendy's answer.

i guess to start with, hersch, i would ask why you want to know? and how the answer to this will affect anything in your life? are you willing to let us behind the curtain and see the little man running the great and powerful oz and show us the dilemma he is facing so that we might know better how to not only advise (if so desired) but more importantly, intercede on behalf of a brother?

the answer i have, though it may not be helpful or one you were looking for, is that i don't think it really matters. i almost broke my brain on this one about 4 years ago. and when all the evidence is weighed, i couldn't see a real difference in the outcome of the two.

because if god has a specific plan for us, it would be hard to know what this plan is. and besides that, if he had a specific plan for us, it would be hard to argue that anything you do is outside this plan because if it was outside the specific plan, it would not be happening.

yet i know we have been given freedom. and it is in this vein where most of the controversy lies. because some would argue that for us to be free, god can't foreknow our actions. yet, at the end of any situation or choice, there can only be one outcome. and whatever you choose is that outcome, so how could god knowing that ahead of time limit your choice? the choice is still yours to make. he just knows the one outcome you are going to give.

but all the same, we are still right in his palm. we cannot escape from it. "for even when we are faithless, he is faithful."

so one day, i just quit thinking about it and relaxed into the love and peace, easy yoke, and light burden of our lord.

so i would echo wendy to just relax and enjoy the ride. but all the same, i recognize that this question may be born out of a heart yearning to find connection with something meaningful. to be working towards something that will not burn up eventually and be worthless. and you don't want to miss that meaningful thing. believe me, i understand that. i was tortured by that thought for years.

all i can say is that if you're listening, you won't miss it. i promise. but make sure you're listening to god and only god. because men, even those godly men close to you, may try to dissuade you from what god is calling you to do. generally, whatever choice you have before you that is the most appealing to you in the truth of your heart, in line with scripture, and unpopular is usually the correct one. because in order to move closer to the goal of relationship with god, we must sacrifice something to move forward into greater depths of him.

do you have one of those options looking at you now?

Herschel said...

i think you guys took this question much more seriously than I had intended it...

and i thank you for caring enough to do so...

I dont have abig dilemna or anything i am facing, but reading this chapter along with the way the conversation had gone and some things i had heard people discuss at a Bible study i go to, it made me just want to survey yall and see what you thought....

I wasn't asking because of any problems or big life decisions...

personally, i feel it doesnt matter anyway. Things come up in my life and I do the best I can to listen to God and move forward. There are definite times when I think I have been in and out of God's will though.

when i was a freshman in college, all i did was stay in my dorm and talk to people on MSN from back home and never went out and made friends or got involved in anything...i ended up almost flunking out and going to junior college. looking back, do i think i missed some major oppurtuinities from God, yes I do.

but then i transfered to what would become my second home, Bethel College(TN, not MN). I truly believed that though God had oppurtunities and i missed them at my first college, He didnt shun me and gave me a wonderful amazing experience at bethel...

after college i tried seminary...do i feel i was supposed to go to seminary at a specific school? yes i did. Did i go there? nope. I went the cheap route and was miserable. Now i am currently enrolling at the school i felt like i should have gone too all along.

however, in this time between seminaries, God has definitly shaped me and introduced me to new people and really helped me to grow alot in that i am probably more serious and driven and prepared to go to seminary as opposed to right out of college when i was still in the video game mindset(ring a bell anyone?)

so Do i think God calls us to specific things...i'll say sometimes, where as other times i think He gives us more freedom...but like you said Jon, we just have to listen

jON said...

college was hard for me and my friends. we all felt like little kids but they said we couldn't act that way. i knew i was supposed to change, but changin' is hard. and it was easier just to play video games...

or something like that. i'm merely typing from memory, so i could have it a little wrong.

you do realize that you typed out the word yall twice in two comments, don't you? back to back even.

just wasn't sure if you noticed. thought i'd point that out for you. you know, if i had done something like that, i'd want you to tell me. like if you caught me listening to Foreigner or REO Speedwagon or something. you could call me on it, for sure.

of course i jest, but i thought it was funny. i hadn't "heard" you use that word before and so i wondered if you typed it absentmindedly because that's how you really talk. and then that made me think that illinois isn't that far away and how different cultures in this country are from state to state. heck, even city to city. but i fancy myself an amateur sociologist, so i think about things like that.

glad to know we're both in the same place about The Plan. it doesn't matter. either way we need to Trust and Obey.

Herschel said...

whats wrong with listening to REO Speedwagon? They played at my high school's prom back in the early 80's...

Herschel said...

and i do actually use the word yall when i talk, and when i do these comments, i dont pay attention to grammar or correctness...

and it is wierd how different things are from state to state...

but also, i live 5 hours south of Chicago in SOUTHERN illinois and on top of that I went to college in tennessee so i have aquired a southern drawl over the years....doh

Dena G said...

Hersch--actually, they played at your high school's prom back in the 70s, actually (and their picture is in the yearbook, captioned as RED Speedwagon). If it had been the 80s, I might have been there!! ;-)

And Jon, I say "y'all" as well--mainly as a rebellion against the Southern Illinois "word" (I use that term very loosely) "you'uns".

Silliness aside, thanks for doing this study--I'm with you, though I don't have much time to actually post anything right now.

I love hearing your perspective on things--it's challenging me to THINK a little deeper and I appreciate that.

jON said...

let's do chapter three starting tomorrow. 1 chapter a week seems to be a good pace for me right now. what with my situation at church, work, zaavanco., and staying open to spontaneuos narnian-style adventures, it is hard to press my brain for sermons. but this laid back conversational take-it-where-it-will one chapter a week seems to be right up my alley.

thanks for hanging around. i enjoy you guys. it's going to be a great summer.

Susan said...

I've had trouble finding an internet connection while on holidays but before we move on can I just say in regard to God having a specific plan for our lives that I have always found Psalm 32:8-9 really helpful.

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you and watch over you. Do not be like the horse or the mule, which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you."

This says to me that God does have a plan for our lives but it is not set in concrete. We do have understanding and are not pawns that God moves around on a chess board.

jON said...

beautifully said, susan. or should i say god? and then thank you, susan, for simply sharing his word with us? i think it perfectly illustrates the truth of what's happening. i wonder why this verse has remained hidden from our eyes for so long?